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GoMe/GoA cooperation

16 respuestas [Último envío]
Andros
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Alahmnat of the Guild of Archivists would like a cooperation between us regarding a chatlog database. I think that Shimmer wanted to have one(to put in the Library section)... Although the followed text is for a GoA member to work on it, I "bolded" the section concerning us. Shimmer can you elaborate on what you wanted out of the chatlog database for us to know what exactly could be the role of the GoMe in this chatlog project...

"Finally, this was brought up at the Guild Communication Meeting yesterday, and I wanted to address it here as well. A while back, ireen had the idea for a comprehensive chatlog project to be included in the Archive. I think this is still a great idea, and would love to jump in with both feet to get it started right away. However, I've got enough other projects in the Archive to deal with right now, and don't think I could give this project as much attention as it would require. I'd therefore like to put out a call for a volunteer or two to head up this project. In addition, I'd like to define a few goals for whoever chooses to take the reigns on this one:

1. Ideally, in keeping with the new structure of the Archive, chatlogs should be contained within a single tag or group of tags for easy searching and navigation.
2. In addition to this structure, chatlogs should be linked to by whatever timeline/history-tracking system we implement, and perhaps even more ideally, link back to those pages as well. In this manner, chatlogs would be more tied to the rest of the history of the Cavern, and not just be isolated events.
3. Chatlogs should be posted in a raw but readable format. In other words, no graphical emoticons would be present in the log, important names (and perhaps their lines of text) would be bolded, and other important lines would ideally be indicated visually as well. I know there are a couple of chatlog formatters out there... if we could standardize on one of them and establish guidelines for the settings we use for them, that would go a long way to making the chatlog archive a uniform resource for players. Perhaps the only thing we'd need to overcome is the variance in timestamping that occurs because the logs are recorded in local time, not Cavern Time.
4. Whoever heads this up should be willing to work with any relevant branches of the GoMe to provide links to news stories and/or formatted/cleaned up logs of an event whenever possible, preferably with appropriate link-backs to the Archive's unedited version of the logs. I did a quick perusal of the GoMe website and didn't find a chatlog resource available, so perhaps this would be something that a joint GoMe/GoA "task force" could help get started."

Kalypso: #85553

shimmerillion
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Anubis LG, a former explorer, donated a chat log parser to the GoMe. I haven't looked at it in detail yet, but I was thinking it would be a good tool to simplify/quicken the chat log posting process. I think it's great that GoA wants to take a hand in cataloguing the chats. They can host it over there, with links from our library section, or we can host it here. Either way.

Shimmerillion | KI 01204798 | rel.to/gome

Alahmnat
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se unió: Ene 16 2008

I apologize for any typos in this post, I'm typing this on my iPod...

I'd be interested in taking a look at that chatlog parser if you've got a link I can follow. I'm afraid I haven't dedicated a lot of time to working out exactly how to work the chatlog system beyond the following points:

  • The GoA chatlog archive would contain unedited(but formatted) logs, preferably time adjusted to Cavern Time to accomodate for the fact that logs are timestamped locally.[/*:m]
  • The GoA archive would link to more end-user friendly logs on the GoMe side (maybe in the library that Shimmer mentioned), probably edited to remove most of the timestamps and background chatter. More press-oriented for those who just want the highlights from a log. The GoMe library would link back to the GoA archive as well.[/*:m]

As far as exactly how to format the logs on either our side or the GoMe side, I have no idea what it should
look like, or how to categorize logs beyond putting them in the chatlog tag and whatever episode or other Uru-related resources that apply.

Anyone with more suggestions on how to put this thing together is more than welcome to offer their thoughts. I apologize that I haven't had much time to devote to this particular archive project, but I've got a bunch of stuff going on at the moment.[/]

shimmerillion
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Alamnat, I took a look at the chat parser yesterday. I can forward it to you if you want to PM me your email address. It is a pretty robust piece of work, and it looks like it is mostly for streaming live chat from the cavern to a website.

I really like your suggestion of how to doublehost the chats.

I think we should set up a searchable database, including the link to the unedited version (on your site) and the user-friendly version (on ours). We can also set up browsing by date, by episode, and by "celeb" (i.e. Yeesha). Just a disclaimer: I don't have a super lot of time, so while this is perfectly doable, I can't promise how fast I'd be able to get to it. If you wanted to start collecting chatlogs, cleaning them up formatting-wise, adjusting the timestamps, and creating a tag system, I think that would get us off to a good start.

What do you think?

Shimmerillion | KI 01204798 | rel.to/gome

Alahmnat
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se unió: Ene 16 2008

Sadly, I think most of us are suffering from chronic lack of time, hehe...

I've sent you a PM with my email address for the chat log parser. I'll fiddle with it and see if I can nail down a "standard" of sorts for formatting the unedited logs, as I'm sure there's scads of options to fiddle with.

Regarding the search capabilities, there's a lot that can be done on DPWR in terms of searching for chatlogs meeting certain criteria. The new archive is tag-based, and you can search across multiple tags for content either in the title, the description, or the body of an entry. At present there's already a few tags that could be applied to logs recorded from Uru: there's a "chatlogs" tag - which obviously all the logs would be added to, there's a tag for MOUL so that searches for Uru-related content will return said logs, and there's tags for individual episodes and "epochs" of Uru (i.e. Prologue). One of the other things I'm trying to develop for the Archive is a timeline system based in large part on the system Wikipedia uses. I don't know if this will actually be built out with tags, or just with articles (I'm thinking just articles, because the number of tags required would make the tag selection field really flaky), but any logs that get added would also need to be connected to the relevant timeline entries (for example, a log from Scars would need to be linked to from the entries for May 2007 and May 22 if that's when it happened), and ideally have links back to them as well. As far as keeping on top of that should something be added and not properly tagged, that's the GoA's responsibility, so I won't bother anyone with the troubling details ;).

For optimal searchability on the GoA side of things, I think having a standardized format for titling the logs would be helpful as well. For instance, we could title every log as follows:

Title: MM/DD/YYYY - Description of event/log
Description: Key participants (Yeesha, Phil, Rils, Sharper, J.D. Barnes, etc.)
Body: The formatted log.

Following this example, the log for Phil's original reappearance in 2003 following his extended absence (since it's the only log I have on-hand to make an example of) would be displayed as follows:

Title: 11/19/2003 - Phil Henderson's conversation with Zardoz
Description: Phil Henderson, Zardoz, Victor Laxman
Body: Formatted log

I want to stress, also, that while I feel it's important to make sure all of the "official" event logs (basically, anything to do with a Cyan-driven character) are cataloged, I think it's equally important - if not more so - that we try to record logs of explorer-only events, like J.D. Barnes's speech in Ae'Gura, and even the logs of the All Guilds Communication Meetings. These are as much a part of the history of Uru as anything Cyan has done, and I think it's important that they be recorded for future reference.

As far as the GoMe side of the system goes, I'll leave you guys to come up with your own thing. Since your emphasis is focused on more press-y type coverage, that may (or may not) warrant a different system of titling and cataloging the mountainous amount of logged text to date, and I think it best to leave it to you guys to nail down since you know more about what you'd need to be doing with it than I do ;). Once we have a system in place and I've fiddled with the log editor enough to know what I'm doing with it, I'll see about gathering up any easily-accessible logs, and putting out a call for people to post anything else they've logged. I'd like to get this rolling after the timeline project is underway so that there's less doing-over of stuff on both ends, so I'd say it's probably going to be a couple of weeks before anything gets started. I'll try to plow through the 10,000 years of history the D'ni were kind enough to pile up before moving away as quickly as I can so that this doesn't get inordinately delayed though.

Many thanks to you, Shimmer, for the conversation about this project, and to Kalypso for bringing it over here from the MOUL forum. :)

Andros
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Just a suggestion about the date of the logs.

You intend on using the USA way to date which is MM/DD/YYYY . I'm from Canada and honestly I never understood why Americans chronically place the DD between the month and the year. I do not know if the USA is the only one who uses this method. The international way of going from DD/MM/YYYY (a day is shorter than a month which is smaller than a year) makes more sense to me. And when in the USA method, the DD is less than 13, it could makes things confusing.

BTW I also fully agree with explorers chatlogs(guild meetings and characters like JD)

Kalypso: #85553

shimmerillion
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Alahmnat, my hat is off to you. You have obviously really thought through how this is going to work, and I think you are right on target. I sent you the chat parser to take a look.

Since you've already got an optimized search going, I wonder if GoMe could piggyback off of DPWR and use your search. We could keep the location of our files as a column of your table while still hosting the chats here (or wherever). It would be easier to link back and forth from the full (DPWR) version and the edited (GoMe) version if there was only one place to update such data. It just seems more efficient to keep all the data in one place. We can talk format and branding later if you think this would be possible. What do you say?

My two cents on date formatting: probably not super important, but it might be easier to replace MM with the abbreviated month name (i.e. Feb.). That way, no matter what order it's in, people will understand. :)

EDIT: Oh, and could we add the name of the explorer who took the log? That way people are acknowledged for donating.

Shimmerillion | KI 01204798 | rel.to/gome

semplerfi
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se unió: Ene 5 2008

Along the lines of co-operations.

The DZS has started working on their ‘brand’ in collaboration with the DPWR for cross Guild, website, forum and group recognition of contributions. Check out our ‘brand’ thread for a better understanding.

http://www.explorerslodge.org/node/515

shimmerillion
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

I was thinking almost exactly the same thing as proposed in this thread, a tiny little icon for whichever groups contributed to the project. A basic HTML page (with CSS classes and ids, but no formatting) would be my other suggestion, so multiple websites can include the same info (and style to their liking).

Yay guild cooperation! Love the efficiency. :)

Shimmerillion | KI 01204798 | rel.to/gome

Andros
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Shimmer what do you think of using the symbol and the background of the GoMe button on our sig for the GoMe brand logo? Because uniqueness is the way the GoA /DZS are going rather than bland in... Ours would fit the description. Circle or square?

Kalypso: #85553

Alahmnat
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se unió: Ene 16 2008

Heh, bunch of stuff to reply to... this may be slightly incoherent, as it's been sitting open on my computer for about 3 hours now, getting added to at random.

On the subject of dates, I've done some more cogitation and agree with Kalypso that the standards-bucking date tactic in the US may not be the most user-friendly approach. I'll have to do some tests locally when I get home from work to see how the archive will sort entries dated in the various formats. I like Shimmer's suggestion to use short month names instead of the numbers, but we'll have to see how everything shakes out in a test to see how jumbled things get.

Quote:
EDIT: Oh, and could we add the name of the explorer who took the log? That way people are acknowledged for donating.

If someone posts their own log, they'll get noted as the original log poster, and they can credit themselves however they want in addition to that, I guess. If someone sends in a log to be posted or we post a log originally recorded by someone else, I do think it's only fair that they be given credit for posting it. Probably somewhere at the top of the log would be a good place for it, especially if some of the logs require some exposition to establish the log's context (and/or location). Whee, more formatting guidelines ;).

Quote:
Since you've already got an optimized search going, I wonder if GoMe could piggyback off of DPWR and use your search. We could keep the location of our files as a column of your table while still hosting the chats here (or wherever). It would be easier to link back and forth from the full (DPWR) version and the edited (GoMe) version if there was only one place to update such data. It just seems more efficient to keep all the data in one place. We can talk format and branding later if you think this would be possible. What do you say?

I agree that keeping all of the data in one place is a good idea, and really, there's only going to be one point of interaction between the DPWR and GoMe sites for each log: within the log itself. Provided the location of the GoMe page doesn't change, all of the DPWR links will stay intact. The difficulty with adding a column to the database - or even of creating a relational table that cross-references the entries table with a GoMe site address for each log - is that actually adding that information into the database, and making sure that it only appears when you enter a chatlog into the archive, is a really thorny proposition. I could probably put together some sort of custom search page that runs outside of the archive proper and only searches the chatlogs, which would tie into a relational table that would have to somehow be maintained outside the standard archive interface, but that would obviously be something to examine after we get our initial collaboration going.

Regarding the "branding" efforts that the DZS and I are working on, the goal is to place these badges beside any link that directs a user to another Guild/group site, to provide a visual reference both that the visitor is leaving the site they're on, and that the site they're going to is maintained by a separate group, as well as who that group is. It's sort of like the external link icon in Wikipedia, only more specific. I also think that the HTML page idea, while a good one, is going to be too difficult to pull off without a lot of duplicated effort, because DPWR's archive is all stored in a database, as is the DZS's wiki. Besides which, the objective I had in mind isn't so much to make the information site-independent, but rather to interconnect the various Guild and group sites that have separate pools of related info so that it's easier to find what you're looking for.

semplerfi
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se unió: Ene 5 2008

Here are a couple drafts of brands in concideration. They are 32x32 pixels. They need some more work to fine tune them. :wink: DZS - DPWR - These images can also be turned into 'favico' or favorite icons. Here's DZS thread on their website's favico.

[edit1]Fixed broken link

Nev'yn
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se unió: Nov 15 2011

http://www.dpwr.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=6371&pid=25999&start=0&#entry25999

*****

@Leo & Marten: Know anyone??? (And no, I am not asking either of you...I automatically assumed you were both a *bit* busy.)

I'm just hoping one ot the other of you may know someone who could help

| "The truth speaks for itself, I am just the messenger." -Lyta Alexander |

 

Leonardo
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se unió: Jun 19 2008

it's the first time I hear Alahmnat in a loooong time

Hoikas
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se unió: Feb 2 2008

And zombies walk the forum....

I was going to put my normal sig image here, then I realized some silly goose set the max sizes too low.

Leonardo
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se unió: Jun 19 2008

As for the GoA/Alahmnat post I recently made: Does that invalidate his request for help? He's recently made a few posts over on Moula and he is still a Forum Mod over there. I'd like to have GoMe keep good relations with them, if possible...For obvious reasons...A "halo" of goodwill for helping him find someone for his website update is more than worth a little effort on our part.

My response was in no way meant to invalidate Alahmnat request. I mis-interpreted your question as in "do you know something more about this?" and I replied I didn't know anything more :D

No, I don't know anyone with the needed knowledge for updating an IP:Boards website.

And don't look at me cheeky

Trekluver
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se unió: Nov 27 2011

In terms of his request for php development, I know of no one except for possibly Mac_Fife or Tech. (However I have no idea how much or how little they actually might know about php.) However, if he's requiring help with IP board, there's a possibility that Capella over at mystcommunity.com might be able to help him.


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